Curse

Sparda · May 12, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

I know when some of you poeple gonna read this.
That they get mad or even worse they would shoot me ^^

I had the idee for a little reshape of tyria.
Place gates at some places on the map that people can't run no more.

Keypoints of the gates
* Ascalon Foothills and Traveler's Vale (can't pas the untill you done all the Coop Missions And relevant quest)

*No entry in Beacon's Perch Till Ascention (when ascended only enrty Lornar's pass)

* A gate infrond of Stingray Strand so that you have 2 do al of maguma.
The gate is open when you have done Sanctum Cay

*A gate Between Talmark Wildernis and Majesty's Rest.
Can't enter Majesty's Rest untill you done all the relavant Coops and quests

* Once in Duird's overlook you can get till Ettin's Back.
Place a quest that they can do coop bloodstone fan Then they can proseed till Henge of Denravi Take shadow quest or whats his name.

* once in Riverside province do de 2 coops now the gate in Stingray strand is open.

once in the crystal desert do you ascention.
you know the story.

* Once in Droks, Beacon's perch is open for you but runners do not get the change for a run couse the objective was droks but you already have it

* Now place a gate in the southern shiverpeaks Between Frozen forest and ice floe and when they have done iron Mines of Moladune they are dropt in thunderhead keep now the gate is open when Thunderhead keep is done and you are on the rings of fire islands Beacon's perch is open from Deldrimmor bowl.

Thats my idee for an anti running operation so you need 2 do most of the quests so there a no more lvl 2 in droks.
And no more runners couse u have 2 play the game now and don't use a runner couse u are lazy

and plz don't shoot me ^^

Stormlord Alex · May 12, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Why force people to play the game through like this? It isn't hurting you *at all*, it's just being childishly self-centered because it doesn't conform to what YOU want people to do. The fact that you've not given us any logical explanation as to why there should be gates in Tyria...

/close please?

Sparda · May 12, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

I think running is a bad thing.
And yes Maybe it's hard but you can fine tune the idee.
And it is even laim 2 see lvl 2/6 in droks it's just a sighn of lazyness
And they claim that they can't play the game without lvl 20 armor.
boohoo your so Pathetic *sarcasm*
And then they have the nerve 2 ask why dude your in a place with high lvl mobs and your not even lvl 8

Thats what i think of it

Sparda · May 12, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Factions and Nightfall make use of gates factios is equipt with gates and same for Nightfall you can't run 2 vabbi and u can't enter the desolation from kourna.
You need wormy and iff someone has wormy they can't take someone who hasn't wormy. And that what they should with tyria place gate and some things that they can't run.
it's just an idee maybe do it with GW 2 make people earn there armor and stuff by playing and not sitting lazy and watch someone run his behind of

Crazyvietguy · May 12, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

So wow.. this is a lame idea.

There will ALWAYS be a way to cheat the system of doing "all the missions/quests" of GW. If you havent noticed, Instead of droks runners in Tyria, in Nighfall and Factions you have players who run the entire continent.

PLUS, the majority of people wanting runs to droks and other places at low levels are people who have already been through the game once or twice before.

/not signed

Wildi · May 12, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparda

Place gates at some places on the map that people can't run no more.

guild wars goes prison wars, enjoy

Stormlord Alex · May 12, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Uh-huh.

You've still to answer coherently... WHY do you actually have a problem with low-level characters being run? It's not influencing your game AT ALL.
You've said it's 'laziness'... So what? Them people paid for GW,and they have a right to play the game as they see fit. If it upsets your morals, tough shit.

Sparda · May 12, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

i just think it's an attitude that is wrong what does you give the rights 2 cheat the game iff you played ones before i think that is laim and NOOB.
or maybe you are all runners or some of you at least and when they put gates in the game.
It's bad for al u guys couse you don't get any money from it

ClanYumemiru · May 12, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Uh-huh.

You've still to answer coherently... WHY do you actually have a problem with low-level characters being run? It's not influencing your game AT ALL.

Yes it does.
Every runnee is one person less that people get to play with in the areas they have chosen to skip.

Quote:

You've said it's 'laziness'... So what? Them people paid for GW,and they have a right to play the game as they see fit. If it upsets your morals, tough shit.

No, they don't have the RIGHT to play as they see fit. They have paid for the PRIVILEGE to play the game as designed.
That the game sadly incorporates this design flaw that enable people to skip over large sections of content, aided and abetted by others who don't give a single care what their actions are causing, that's tough shit.
But fortunately, it's tough shit that can, and has to, be prevented.

I would like to remind you that you gain locations not by account, but by character.

Also, I don't think this is a morals case. It's a gameplay and balance issue as well; one adequately resolved in Factions (and Nightfall as well, although there it really should be implemented tighter), where it works very well.
I see no reason to not have it applied to Prophecies as well.

ClanYumemiru · May 12, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Hm. Upon reading the original 'proposal' more closely I think there's room for improvement - and accomodation.

1. Place a Locked Gate between Diessa Lowlands and Ascalon Foothills; opens upon successful completion of Nolani Academy or for non-Tyrian characters.

2. Expand Beacon's Perch with an adjacent outpost to its south - let's call it "Lornar's Gate" for convenience. Party size 8, level 20 henchmen - but only accessible from Beacon's Perch for people who have Ascended in any campaign.

3. Locked gate between Talmark Wilderness and Tears of the Fallen - opens upon sucessful completion of Riverside Province for all characters.

That ought to improve game flow, still allow for a measure of freedom, AND opens up Lornar's Pass for serious explorers.

There.

Destroyer1717 · May 12, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Dude, Prophecies isn't exactly a short campaign. Getting to lvl 20 and to Droks takes many hours of playing. After playing through twice on a ranger and a warrior, i realized that I really didn't care enough to go through it all over again as a monk (especially as a monk), so i hired a runner.
On top of that, look at when you migrate i characters from other continents. Going from LA, all the way to Droks is a long slog, and given that you're already on lvl 20 and the mobs are on lvl 16, it really just becomes pointless.

The fact is that runners don't affect YOUR game, so let them have their fun and play the game they want to play it.

Quote:

Yes it does.
Every runnee is one person less that people get to play with in the areas they have chosen to skip.

I would not have a lvl 20 monk right now if i didn't have the option of running. I would not have played the campaign again. Every person that runs through to Droks is a person that will more quickly reach the end game, where having real people rather than henchmen is actually important.

ClanYumemiru · May 12, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destroyer1717

Dude, Prophecies isn't exactly a short campaign.

Neither is Nightfall. You might do well to remember that a lot of people have bitched their asses off that Factions was so short - you get your long campaign in Prophecies and you're -complaining- about it ?

Quote:

Getting to lvl 20 and to Droks takes many hours of playing.
After playing through twice on a ranger and a warrior, i realized that I really didn't care enough to go through it all over again as a monk (especially as a monk), so i hired a runner.

You are therefore justifying that just because you've done it before you don't have to do it again. I'll remind you that you unlock missions and locations not by account, but by character. If you choose to skip out on those achievements that says more about your willingness to play (or rather, the -lack- of it) than about the length of the campaign.

Quote:

On top of that, look at when you migrate i characters from other continents. Going from LA, all the way to Droks is a long slog, and given that you're already on lvl 20 and the mobs are on lvl 16, it really just becomes pointless.

Well, then I think the obvious answer should be "don't go to Tyria"
From LA to Droknar's the proper route as it stands now is only 9 missions.
That's 9000 to 18000 experience and 9 skill points, on top of the drops, the exploration percentage, the chance to help -other- players who are stuck on sections of the game along the way (which you evidently don't care for either) - and let's not mention the shiny things and skills you can pick up if you choose to do some quests.

Quote:

The fact is that runners don't affect YOUR game, so let them have their fun and play the game they want to play it.

I reject your false reality and substitute the real one instead.
Runners ARE effecting the game as a whole - try find people for Maguuma or the back end of Kryta mission that don't panic or freak out if you say you just want to do the mission (and not the bonus) or play in normal mode.
In addition, running is creating a serious play balance issue (armor value vs. monster level & damage) - but I fear I'm moving into concepts too advanced for you to grasp.

Quote:

I would not have a lvl 20 monk right now if i didn't have the option of running.

I think this says enough about your qualities of playing - no further questions, your honor!

Quote:

I would not have played the campaign again. Every person that runs through to Droks is a person that will more quickly reach the end game, where having real people rather than henchmen is actually important.

In essence your argument boils down to Prophecies having about 10 missions too many - and if you remove them, not only are you gouging ENORMOUS chunks out of the storyline, you also end up with a campaign shorter, easier and less rewarding than the (unjustly) much maligned Factions.

I stand by my argument and that of the original poster.
Place the gates - or at least, for chrissakes, add that "Lornar's Gate" I proposed (basically an additional town area adacent to Beacon's with party limit 8 and lvl 20 henchies, access only for Ascended chars) - you still get your easy access to Droknar's (don't you agree) without having to deal with people who REALLY have no business being in that area.
Heck, I'd even support a teleport quest or minimission from Lion's Arch/Lion's Gate TO said "Lornar's Gate" for foreign chars.

Age · May 12, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparda

I think running is a bad thing.
And yes Maybe it's hard but you can fine tune the idee.
And it is even laim 2 see lvl 2/6 in droks it's just a sighn of lazyness
And they claim that they can't play the game without lvl 20 armor.
boohoo your so Pathetic *sarcasm*
And then they have the nerve 2 ask why dude your in a place with high lvl mobs and your not even lvl 8

Thats what i think of it

This is the worse suggestion I have seen on this forum.I don't think you know what you are saying and understand what running is.I do it all the time not the Droks run but to other places as it has been so nerfed only Pro Warriors and now Dervs are the only ones who can run it.I prefer some freedom to move around when and where I want in Tyria and I wished that Cantha and Nightfall were the same if you just want to go there and just cap some elites.

Those that get a Run to Droks aren't going there for armour at lvl2 as you can't get that way as a real player.I don't think you know this but those are bots getting a run and why most get a run to The Cay is so they can get thier darn ascention over with.Then you have chars from other continents that want to try and get to the Tomps.

I don't think you understand why ppl run through the game it get quite repetitive and we face that in our daily lives.It really get boring in real life but in GW we do have a choice and we use it escape this in our daily life.

btw get a spell checker I may not be the best at my grammer but I do have a spell checker.

Knight Othin Of War · May 12, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

/Not Signed, i agree with everybody else

legion_rat · May 12, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Ok heres my arguement for gates. It has nothing to do with running. Lets say you are out adventuring. Using henches killing anything you need to. you explore the whole area and come to a gate. its closed. So all of your hard work and time is wasted. you have worked your ass off and can go no further because we want to stop runners. Well we need to stop people from running you say. its unfair and lazy you say. Ok how do we stop people from getting runs on missions? A single char can solo certain missions and they charge for the service of doing it while low level characters ride along. How will you stop this? With my assassin i can pretty much solo all of the missions to get someone to yaks bend. thats a run there it just takes more time. If you build gates people will just start running the missions and charging more money. Perhaps this is your true goal i dont know. As far as the lazy people getting droks armor or what have you. SO WHAT. its their character if they dont want to earn the items and would rather pay for it who cares. It does not chage the way you play the game in the least. You do not have to partener with the lvl8 in droks armor if you do not want to. If he/she wants the advantage of better armor let them have it. How is this any different than someone buying green of gold weapons from another player so they have a better DPS or other bonuses then they would with the lvl 8 weapons they find in ascalon?

so for the OP

/notsigned.

thank you

~the rat~

rohara · May 12, 2007, 09:49 PM // 21:49

/not signed

tbh, i'm glad most of tyria is skippable via running. its a bloody boring campaign after you've done it once or twice.

the first time through is quite charming, the 2nd time feels like grind, the 3rd time...screw it, LFR!

and i don't think you're taking factions and nightfall characters into account. you arrive at LA, level 20 and awesome, and you're up against level 12-17 baddies until you finally make your way to the southern shiverpeaks. that's a long haul of noob bashing and you hardly get any XP for it. not challenging and very boring! as for prophecies characters...honestly, the prophecies campaign itself is at fault. its too long and it takes forever to reach the high-end areas, get max armor, cap an elite, ascend, and get your 30 bonus attribute points. lots of experienced players just don't enjoy that - they only want the hard stuff. prophecies just isn't enjoyable to repeat for many people.

boo hoo so they aren't around to help on the missions...you want them to blow through it for you? (isn't that similar to running?) i've played through all 3 campaigns by myself - its the only way to learn. wiki has a guide for every mission, that's all you need to get through the campaigns. you shouldn't depend on other players for your own success.

Ctan · May 12, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Thats one of worst idee I've seen.(to OP and all u other people that agree with this idee).

/not signed.

ClanYumemiru · May 12, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion_rat

Ok heres my arguement for gates. It has nothing to do with running. Lets say you are out adventuring. Using henches killing anything you need to. you explore the whole area and come to a gate. its closed. So all of your hard work and time is wasted.

You have just condemned an entire GW campaign as "hard work and time wasted".
Actually, you've just condemned TWO GW campaigns as such. Congrats. Do you have any idea what you've just said ?

Quote:

you have worked your ass off and can go no further because we want to stop runners. Well we need to stop people from running you say. its unfair and lazy you say. Ok how do we stop people from getting runs on missions? A single char can solo certain missions and they charge for the service of doing it while low level characters ride along. How will you stop this?

Simple - anyone left off radar at any cutscene causes the entire team to get kicked back to the Mission Outpost with a big fat "Mission Failed"
OK, I know that sounded really harsh and unforgiving, and it actually is (I can think of a few spots in current missions where that would fail horribly) but if people choose to actively avoid playing and getting the most advance for the fewest amount of work by throwing (game) cash at the problem then perhaps, harsh and unforgiving solutions are what we need.

Quote:

With my assassin i can pretty much solo all of the missions to get someone to yaks bend. thats a run there it just takes more time. If you build gates people will just start running the missions and charging more money.

Will they ? In effect you are saying the game's so horribly screwed nothing short of a total game redesign can save it, are you ?
I disagree. Offer people an incentive to play for and they will. Look at Factions - the incentive there being that with every mission you play you unlock more and more of the world to explore - even if you have to mind the locked gates and closed areas every now and then.
Nightfall isn't too dissimilar - sadly the implementation there failed on several points (I need not remind anyone here of the dreaded Docks/LA/KC ferries or the Vabbi run (the last one being one of the most horrible exploits I know of))
but as a system it is designed to REWARD the player for achieving story progress - not just through shiny items and more cash in his back pocket, but new opportunities to see more of the world.

Quote:

Perhaps this is your true goal i dont know. As far as the lazy people getting droks armor or what have you. SO WHAT. its their character if they dont want to earn the items and would rather pay for it who cares.

Then they should stick to PvP, period.
PvE is all about doing the hard work and being able to show what you've achieved by being places - or having the mementoes of it (armor, weapons, titles, etc)
Sure, you can buy some - but not others. You'll have to go there to get them - and probably, have to work hard for it.
As I noted before, you unlock locations by character, not by account.

Quote:

It does not chage the way you play the game in the least. You do not have to partener with the lvl8 in droks armor if you do not want to. If he/she wants the advantage of better armor let them have it. How is this any different than someone buying green of gold weapons from another player so they have a better DPS or other bonuses then they would with the lvl 8 weapons they find in ascalon?

In essence, you are clamoring for a system where the campaign means nothing, only the bits you can get the most advantage out of - any way possible. How this affects other players, the campaign, the story, the WORLD you're playing in is all secondary.

Try seriously doing a mission with people when most of the outpost inhabitants are aforementioned level 8s in drok's armor whining about wanting to be powerleveled, see how long YOU last

Here's a thought for you: if a perceived majority of players gets their "Drok Armor" they chose and causes a balance shift that reaches too far towards player advantage, how long before its *forcibly* corrected towards the game side again and -demands- that players do a Drok run to advance ?

Is that what you want ? Really ?

Fortunately we can trust the developers to use enough common sense to know that the perceived majority is just that - perceived - and it will -not- have any undesirable consequences for people choosing to play the storyline as given (I do agree though, that Prophecies is very drawn out, especially compared to the other campaigns - but it's hard to gloss over skipping 12 out of the 25 storyline missions just for a few goodies)

And as for foreign characters and travel to Drok's - see my suggestion: put in that Lornar's Gate, heck, link it to LA via the Lion's Gate with a minimission through the southern section of Gates of Kryta, and give the offshore guys a real, honest shot at one of the most awe-inspiring explorables of Tyria.
But don't give it away by lining someone else's pockets.

Puebert · May 12, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

/notsigned.

I don't like playing through all of Prophecies.

Running is fine. If I want to skip the Jungle (which is my least favorite part of proph) then why shouldn't I.

Infact, I think there should be a place like Droks in all chapters so if I want, I can skip some parts.

the_jos · May 12, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Reasons to get a run:
- Better armor
- Fast leveling

Both 'flaws' were corrected in Factions and Nightfall, where leveling and good armor are more early in the game.
It's always been said that the game starts at lvl20, so get there asap

- Foreign characters

Well, I don't see a reason why a foreign character should work his/her way though half prophecies before the real fun starts.

That being said, I don't see a reason to nerf running.
People that are being run have the gold to get run (probably not the first character) and are willing to pay.
When they have factions/nightfall, they could get to their main outposts after reaching Loin's and get their armor and level there.

People won't become worse players because they skip some areas.
I can dream some of the missions/quests and know exactly what to do with each profession.
Must I really do them all just to show that?

Btw, I never got a run, just played Proph, even on my Rt, Sin, Derv and P.
But I might consider a run on a new character, if I think it's worth the gold.